For further proof of the FF’s intent to create a Christian Nation we can look at some of the writings of the Founders themselves. John Adams said:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, said: Providence has given to our people the choice
of their rulers, and it is the duty – as well as the privilege and interest – of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.

These are just two of many. But if that is not enough, we can look at their actions. And since you like questions, I will ask you a few. If the USA is not a Christian Nation, then why was the first, and for many years only textbook in America the Bible? If this is not a Christian Nation, why was one of the first acts of Congress to commission the printing of a Bible for distribution in schools and to others as had need. Why didn’t they commission copies of the Torah, or the Koran(http://www.wallbuilders.com)?

And no, I would not rewrite the Constitution to identify Jesus, because then it would not be our Constitution. The First Amendment prohibits this, I don’t have any problem with it.

Finally, as for group salvation or damnation. You are correct the Jesus put an end to any form of group salvation, if there ever was one. But the Judgment of Nations has never ceased. Checkout Mathew 25:31-33:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats (
http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/matt/mt25_31.htm).

Notice this talks about nations, not individual believers.

If you want a good discourse on the subject of America as a Christian Nation, I recommend you pick up the book “Original Intent” by David Barton, who is one of the foremost authorities on the FF’s living today. I understand that as an atheist you probably don’t like fact that you were born into a nation founded by Christians with the intent of forming a government based on Biblical principles. But if you embrace the “tolerance” that most Liberals do, you are bound to accept this ideal. If not, you could always move to Godless Europe (that was tongue in cheek).

You should also know that I am praying for you. Not only that you will do the research and discover the true purposes and intent of the Founding Fathers, but also that you will do some true research on the Bible, and the forgiveness and love of Jesus Christ. I recommend you check out this site:
http://www.gospelway.com/instruct/
to learn the important doctrines of faith, and to save your precious eternal soul.

God bless you.

One assertion that you make I’d like you to expand on: “For us as modern people, God has approved three types of government: family, church, and civil.” Since, in most mainstream Christianity, the last direct words from God were put on paper 2000 years ago, I’m curious about your use of the word “modern.” I’m aware that the Bible says a lot about family (both Jesus and Paul recommend celebacy over marriage, like their fathers and forefathers before them), and a fair amount about the church, but where, precisely, is the Biblical commandment to form representative democracies with written constitutions?

My biggest problem with the assertation that America is a “Christian nation” is that the term is rather vague. If you are arguing that our forefathers were predominantly Christian, this is pretty much a no-brainer. If you are arguing that they regarded the Bible as a legitimate source of law… things get much, much murkier. You can make arguments about supporting documents and writings, about prayers said and Divine Providence invoked, but when it came time to put the supreme law of the land onto paper, they made a conscious choice not to use the word God or Jesus anywhere within our constitution. If it had been their intent for America to be Christland, this was the place to codify it and make it indiputable. They could hammer it down and silence future atheists, Jews, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindus, native American shamans, Shirley McClain, Voodo-doers, and maybe Catholics, since I don’t think they were very heavily represented among the founding fathers. Instead, they deliberately designed a document that avoided invoking God as the basis for its powers (the power flows from “We the People”) and that borrows nothing from the Bible. Zilch. You can’t point to a single article of the constitution and tell me, “They’ve taken this directly from Genesis,” or “Jesus said this first.”

If you had a time machine, and could travel back to the constitutional convention, would you try to change this? Would you argue that the constitution should enshrine Jesus as the only legitimate source of government? And, if you did make these arguments, and warn them about the horrid distopia from which you’ve travelled, do you think they’d see the light? How would your proposed preamble to the Constitution read?

Finally, the thing that most bugs me about the term “Christian nation” is that it seems to me to be no more spiritually meaningful than “Christian dog” or “Christian donut.” Only individuals can be Christians; there is no longer any group salvation or damnation. It’s true, in the old testament, God was big on judging nations. The ancient Israelites were pretty much judged in the collective. Get a critical mass worshipping Ba’al, and the next thing you know the Philistines were pouring over the walls. But, Christ changed the contract. He came and specifically said that getting into Heaven was no longer a group effort. John 3:16 breaks it down: God sent is only begotten son and WHOSOEVER believeth in him gets a thumbs up on judgement day.

America, the nation, cannot stand before God on judgement day. America has no soul, Columbia notwithstanding. America cannot be saved, or damned. The new deal is: Your neighbor on the left can be an atheist communist with a tattoo of Lenin, your neighbor on the right can spend their nights dancing around naked in the backyard and praying to the moon, and the family across the street can be foreigners whose language you can’t fathom and whose religion is a mystery, but seems to involve doing terrible things to goats–and none of this will matter to the Lord on Judgment Day if you are a “whosoever.” You will not be judged by the behavior of your fellow citizens. You won’t even be judged by the behavior of your family! The tattooed atheist can be your father, and it won’t matter squat to the Lord!

Attempting to use the law to legislate your fellow men into Christians is a doomed enterprise. I’m guessing Jesus knew this. since he didn’t go into politics. Why his followers haven’t figured it out is a mystery.

James, you ask some good questions, and the answers are in our history, which I would recommend you put some study into to. Let’s take a look.

First, you asked why the Founding Fathers didn’t simply adopt the Bible as our law, rather than write a Constitution. Actually, the FF’s used the Constitution to create a Bucolically based government, which we see in their writings. As for homosexuality, all the original states had anti-sodomy laws. In fact, 6 of them made it a capital crime. When the Founding Fathers wrote of it, even in law books, they spoke briefly and succinctly, so as not to offend and to move away from a subject which absolutely disgusted them, and rightly so.

Now as for the government of Israel, and have two approved forms, I need to correct you a little bit. The Judges were indeed approved by God, but Kings were not. If you read 1Sam 8 you will see God telling Samuel to warn the people that they will regret this request. The people igonore God’s warning, and most of the kings are wicked, oppressing the people and worshiping other gods.

For us as modern people, God has approved three types of government: family, church, and civil. The family is the most basic unit, with the father as head of household, leading and instructing the family and being responsible for it’s welfare. The church is next, headed by the Pastor who is to instruct and correct the members of the church, responsible for their spiritual well being. And finally Civil government, which is to provide justice and protect the rights of the citizens as given to us by God.

It should also be noted, as a basic point of history that I am quite fankly surprised you do not know, that the FF’s considered having a king, offering the position to George Washington, but rejected the idea, because they wanted to avoid the very problems that caused them to rebel and seperate in the first place. The FF’s had been through years of taxation without representation. When they protested, instead of getting justice, they got oppression. So instead they used some of the ideas of pagans to form a Constitutional Republic. However, one of the big differences is that they believed the providence of God (the God of The Bible) ordained them to have this government, and they began each session of the Constitutional Convention with prayers and supplications to God to assist in their endeavors.

As for the name, if I were a US History teacher I would have to give you an F for that one. While I have seen a few websites that refer to a poem about Columbia, the real meaning of this name is as a reference to Christopher Columbus, credited with discovering the Western Hemisphere.

If you are going to challenge the assertions made on this blog, I will always welcome them. But please, try to do some research beforehand, and have some references to back up your claims. Otherwise it kind of a waste of people’s time.

The Bible shows two systems of government that presumably have God’s approval. First, he allowed his chosen people to be kingless, with the laws enforced by a network of unelected Judges who decided the fates of their fellow men based on adherance to God’s laws. Later, the judges appointed a King and the Jews continued to have kings for centuries until the whole nation fell apart.

When our founding fathers established America, presumably they could have taken their guidance from the Bible and prayed for God to give them a king, and established America as the new Holy Land. Instead, they rejected all Biblical models of government and instead specifically adopted the ruling models of pagans–the Greeks and Romans, inventors of such things as democracies and republics. When they build Washington, they filled it with buildings resembling Greek temples. They named the district surrounding the capital after a neo-Greek goddess who is the supposed personification of America–Columbia.

So, our founding fathers did turn to ancient texts and writings when designing our system of government. They just didn’t turn to the Bible.